Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Irish Kayaking and Canoeing discussion forum.

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Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by Brendan » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:30 pm

a wishlist of the stuff people want Canoe Ireland to be involved in/do. I'm using the term Canoe Ireland as I would like to distinguish between the past (Irish Canoe Union) and the bright future that is at our feet - this could be awesome!!
This will not happen overnight, and most of it may take years to come to fruition (Seanie, I'd love to see this list presented in a way that would allow things to be 'crossed off' when they have been achieved - my computer skills do not cater for this).

1) Publish board meeting minutes
2) Get involved in river access - at the very least have a policy document on it, based on fact. Consult with the MCI, IMBA, etc, and work for more access.
3) Every new kayak/canoe sold should come with free membership of Canoe Ireland (regardless of it's awesome, whether it be the latest and greatest carbon anti-gravity device, or a sit-on top). This would make people aware of Canoe Ireland and it's activities. Hopefully a proportion of these would then pursue the sport. This would require buy-in from shop owners as they would have to take details when boats are being sold.
4) Provide some funding for people representing the country in international events, who have qualified to do so (ie; the national teams).
5) Get involved in the consultation process where-ever works are being done to any river/lake/canal/harbour/beach/bridge. We should be consulted as a matter of course (similar to any other organisation, angling for example), when works are being planned that may affect our activities. We should not be seen as on obstruction, but must engage positively with other parties in this objective. (Think of the no. of freestyle/slalom spots this could result in!!)
6) A slalom course (a la Nottingham - obviously with play features).

Joined:Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:06 am

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by davefarrell » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:53 pm

this document is worth a read,
the link should take you to the icu website ... uaithe.pdf

Joined:Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by roshaw_87 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Its been a while since I last read that document, that was 2006, there is no more mention on the website.
there is a massive amount of work to be done to even reach where Mountaineering Ireland are at, part of the reason I don't want to see a new CEO or training officer is that I think this is at the core of what we as a NGB should be doing for are members and its should be a key role of are CEO and development officer. But this would be a complete break from the previous CEO's job, a rewrite of Bennys role and a change to what was Conors role as training officer was. Thats not something the current executive or board should do without giving the members a chance to speak.
On top of that the new model of providerships the tdu plans needs modernation and the best person for that job has to be Benny(it could be done other ways thought) which means another change to his role. It also has a massive effect on what the training officers role would be. Its not for the TDU committee, the board or the executive to decide such big changes in the way things are done without consulting all the members.
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Joined:Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:14 pm

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by leftism » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:09 pm

Was posting on another thread when this one started. Just to synopsise some suggestions for Canoeing Ireland which i've read and agree with:

1) Reduce its reliance on ISC funding.
2) Increase transparency at board level by publishing board meeting minutes.
3) Allow official representation for recreational paddlers on the board.
4) Allow intervarsity representation on the board.
5) Improve the Liffey Descent.
6) Publish the findings of this years investigation into corporate bad practice.
7) Change the voting structure at the AGM. It is outdated, overly complicated and often misused to serve an elite few.

I may actually start a separate thread on the Liffey Descent as i've a huge personal interest in it and want to see the race return to the event it once was...

Anyone know when the deadline for submitting proposals to the AGM is? I've a couple of these proposals i would like to get in and still might be able to do it through my local club...

Joined:Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:41 pm

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by kev » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:41 pm

Deadline for motions is friday

Joined:Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by paddymcc » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:23 pm

2 Wishes!!!

1: That Canoeing Ireland Promote Paddle sports In Ireland through the National media and links with Tourism Board etc!

Put some funds/time into this side and the Organisation will grow more people who try to kayak/Canoe the more that will stick with it, the more potential for future Olympians and world champions in all disciplines. Apart from competitive paddling promotion of the waterways for canoe/kayak touring and the coastline for sea kayaking. Let people know what they can do in there own country. Touring Is huge in the UK, Europe and The states we have amazing waterways for it why not promote it more.

2: That Canoeing Ireland do not run Courses on a Commercial Basis!

There is an exceptional amount of Providers and Clubs around the country that could be Delivering these courses. Canoeing Ireland should see that they should embrace these groups and that CI would fall into a Quality Control role. I know the TDU's provider-ship model is a good step forward but could be worked on. Revenue could be generated It would need to be fleshed out but I think there is a huge potential for it. (I would be in favor of the likes of the Alps trips being kept up and Some Level 5 skills courses being run if Providers cant afford to run them I would see it that CI could step in to Run these at Cost price Not necessarily to make a profit!)


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Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by EoinH » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:22 am

On my list would be...

1. That CI actively engage the fisheries boards, OPW and local authorities to help inform and improve issues relating to river access and manmade alteration.

2. That CI conduct a feasability study into establishing a programme to attract primary/secondary school children into the sport and setup a nationwide junior acadamey. We need to make paddling more friendly and appealing for children as the numbers of juniors currently paddling are miniscule.

3. Funding for setting up dedicated access paths on frequently used rivers, changing huts, signage, the physical infrastructure could be so much better.

Joined:Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:37 am

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by canned » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:49 pm

While not wanting to hijack the thread the inclusion of the word "access" is something that puts my nerves on edge.

Any suggestion of the ICU getting involved in access discussions would have to be pretty clear in terms of what the parameters are that should be discussed.

I was with a group who were told we were not allowed on the Upper Carragh one day. We decided not to get involved in any rows about it and went away; I don't think this should be the case but I certainly don't think any kind of agreement should be hammered out for such a run. People should simply be allowed to paddle.

In terms of our NGB developing a position: I think it should do little more than have the guts to say that paddlers should be allowed to enjoy the water. Simple as that.

Joined:Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:48 am

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by caz » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:37 pm

1) Tighter regulation and monitoring of ICU instructors. Instructor qualifications should be subject to renewal just like first aid qualifications are. Canoe Ireland should also have the mandate to revoke qualifications in cases of instructors acting dangerously or unethically.

2) More help towards making kayaking accessible to those who otherwise would not have the opportunity, for example people from disadvantaged backgrounds, rural areas, people with disabilities and youth clubs etc

I don't really agree the recent push in the ICU to promote paddling for women. It's 2011 and realistically a woman has no more obstacles in taking up kayaking than the average man would. The idea of providing more funding and opportunities to a group based on their gender is pointless and pretty sexist really. One of the biggest hindrance to people's paddling is money and resources, not gender. I'm female btw.

3) More support and guidance for rural clubs and clubs with less resources due to geography. Although I have to admit they have been extremely helpful to our little club thus far.

I'm not really 'in' on the whole ICU scandal or what exactly is going on. I'm just a regular pleb giving my 2c so be nice! :|

Joined:Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:26 am

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by Simon92 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:29 am

I would definitely like to see some sort of initiative with regards to encouraging primary school and secondary school kids to give kayaking a go. In my mind a system such as: if the appropriate gear could be sourced(mainly second hand boats etc.), perhaps a trailer or van and then have a couple of level 2 or 3 instructors travelling around the country and inviting schools to participate, with only minimal cost (maybe €5 per child per hour) to cover a basic wage and diesel, bearing in my mind at one lake you could have potentially 6 or 7 schools/ groups a day, and then hand out leaflets for local clubs. While the initial investment might be quite large, I think it would encourage a lot of young people into the sport. I always wanted to give kayaking a proper go after first using sit-on-tops on a school tour, and then wanting to try the real thing. It was about 7 years later, when I got to college when I got the chance(no local clubs at the time).

What canned says about access is true to a certain point, but there are cases where CI should get involved, because it is publicly owned land, under a government quango. The weir wave in Galway spring to mind where it is considered trespassing to cross fisheries land (well technically not, the law is on our side), but you will be accused of trespassing.

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994
Section 11 of the 1994 Act makes it an offence for anyone to enter (i.e., trespass) a building or the vicinity of a building with the intention of committing an offence and/or interfering with property.

It is an offence to trespass in a manner likely to cause fear in another person under Section 13 of the Act. There is no inclusion of any intent to commit a crime or to interfere with property in this section. This can be seen from the powers given to the Gardai under this Section. A Garda may direct any person he or she finds trespassing on a building or the cartilage, in such a manner as causes or is likely to cause fear in another, to desist from acting in such a manner and to leave immediately the vicinity or area of the place concerned in a peaceable and orderly manner.

Hence trespassing is not actually a crime in this country

Though please don't use this to piss off landowners who may originally only need a bit of gentle persuasion

Joined:Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:02 pm

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by annie » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:07 pm

On my list:

1. Juniors! Just on that point Simon, handing out leaflets to local clubs is all very well, but not all clubs are in a position to accept junior members. Maybe supporting existing clubs in securing appropriate facilities for junior members could be another approach, as well as developing canoeing in scout groups/schools where there is already a framework for that kind of outdoor activity. The intervarsities grew out of "schools" canoeing, but I'm still not sure what schools canoeing actually was, so it would be great to see that revived.

2. Would also like to see CI support clubs to access grant opportunities available to them locally. For example, college clubs can access funds for first aid/rescue training on health and safety grounds, youth groups are allocated funding for outdoor activities including kayaking, several clubs up their income through courses during the summer months, but I'm sure several more aren't aware of the many ways they can secure funding outside of member subscriptions. I'm not sure how you could disseminate that knowledge, and I suppose it's partly on people to seek it out themselves, but pairing a new club with an established one might be one way.

3. Regarding intervarsity rep on the board, I'm not sure you will persuade a 2nd/3rd year college student from outside Dublin to travel up for board meetings as well as run a varsities, at least not if they intend on graduating, but if you flip that, and get the college students already sitting on the technical committees to plug their competitive discipline in their college club, that might be as worthwhile. In the last few years marathon, WWR, canoe polo, have all had people studying where there are college clubs, why not use the links that are already there.

P.S. Scouts in Galway and also Foroige Youth Group are always on the hunt for instructors to donate their time for anyone wanting to promote the junior side of things... feel free to drop me a PM :D

Joined:Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:26 am

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by Simon92 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:36 pm

annie wrote:The intervarsities grew out of "schools" canoeing, but I'm still not sure what schools canoeing actually was, so it would be great to see that revived.
I know Alan "Moogie" Moore has gotten a good few people in the Grammar school in sligo, where he teaches involved. Be interesting in hearing about that experience, more than likely there's another few paddlers teaching in schools in various places that could get things moving......

Woops, gone off topic...........

Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:33 pm

Re: Canoe Ireland Wishlist

Post by Sarah » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:28 am

The ICU should look into supporting scout kayaking clubs more. There's been a significant improvement in kayaking already in the past two years since a malahide sea scout leader began an initiative with the icu to run kayak instructor courses with the scouts. Indeed I'd say the majority of instructors at level 1 and 2 level who qualified last year were scouts and are very useful in the kayaking community due to our volunteering nature. Take for example Paddlefest had a large amount of scout volunteers at it contributing to it's success.

And again huge huge contributions have been made to the Irish kayaking scene from kayakers such as Neil Slevin and Eoin Keyes to name just 2 who I believe both began kayaking in scouts and have represented Ireland at international level.

Funding and support from the ICU or Canoe Ireland ( I'm confused as to which to refer to now) would go an incredibly long way in scout groups who generally have very little funds to spend on kayaking and developing the sport within their clubs.

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