Seanie Should Stand for Election

Irish Kayaking and Canoeing discussion forum.

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Brendan
Posts:14
Joined:Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:11 am
Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by Brendan » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:10 pm

At long last, the tone seems to have changed, the name calling has subsided and some useful discussion has started.

For the record, I have no 'personal' issue with Seanie, we agree on many things. I took execption to being implicated in some sort of conspiracy, that I was definitely not part of, and harsh words were typed. Conclusions were jumped to... mayhem (of the online variety) ensued.

Canoe Ireland could certainly do a better job, but that takes time and effort, much more of both than typing a message on a forum does. The board has been somewhat restricted in what it could achieve for nearly a year now, it's not for lack of ambition, but the vast majority of the focus was taken up in figuring out what went on in the past, and 'the legal issue'.
The office is down 2 of it's senior staff, and this work has been shouldered by the secretary and treasurer (both of whom have other jobs to go to -the jobs that put food on the table, pay the bills, etc). It's decidedly unfair to be taking cheap shots at these guys.
The whitewater community are very guilty of apathy towards the ICU, it's seen as a Dublin organisation, catering for a small minority and doing little for the 'normal' guy. Very few people attend the AGM, and thus the AGM does not reflect their views. Now please don't all on my back and say it's not true - I am a member (lapsed) of the whitewater community - I've been involved in freestyle events since the mid nineties, paddling whitewater events all over the country for years, wacko on the jacko, boatercross, flesk, I've even run a few (I should be out there getting wet right now, but have been cursed with an infection). The vast majority of the whitewater community are of the opinion, that why would I go to the AGM, it's in Dublin, I'll have to give up a days boating, etc.... I agree, but then how do you expect to see change if you won't engage with the process?? Hence, I am involved. How many of the college clubs send delegates??

Please attend the AGM, let your voice be heard, I would love to see someone with a whitewater background on the executive. There are 3 positions available - Carpe Diem and all that!!

I’m going to start a thread, called the CI wishlist, I’d like it be a list of the things that Canoe Ireland should do/be involved in, I’d like people to contribute, but keep it real folks, relocating the Zambezi (minus the crocs) and it’s weather to Cork is not going to happen (the joy of being

roshaw_87
Posts:55
Joined:Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:37 pm
Location:Galway

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by roshaw_87 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:03 pm

Brendan wrote:Canoe Ireland could certainly do a better job
I was hoping you might answer some of my questions and give us an idea of where you think we can improve the union?

edit
as i was writing this you were doing exactly that on a new thread
087 9862517/ [email protected]
Intelligence is what you use when you dont know what to do

leftism
Posts:52
Joined:Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:14 pm

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by leftism » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:00 pm

I would echo the sentiments of roshaw_87 with regards to having members of the board on here openly debating issues in canoeing! Its great to have an open dialogue about our vision for the future of the sport. I think 99% of the people on this forum have canoeings best interest at heart.

Regarding the spat between Noel and Seanie, i honestly think it is a case of "crossed wires". I have had the opportunity to meet or speak with both parties and i have HUGE admiration for both men! The work and stress that Noel and other members of the board have personally endured over the last 12 months has been immense. Most paddlers know how integral Noel's work was in removing the former CEO from power. We are all hugely grateful for this! Had Noel not gotten involved, i am sure we would still have a CEO running our sport in shall we say a "questionable" manner...

Noel, if you aren't already aware, you should trawl through this site and look at the OVERWHELMING vocal support that Seanie voiced for the boards actions over the past year. It should also be worth pointing out that during a 6 month period when an information vacuum led a devious minority to distribute letters and spread lies, in an effort to derail the whole process of investigation, Seanie used this forum as a means of spreading the message to stand firm and support CI! This forum has been the only online source of information regarding the governance of canoeing over the last year. It is also the only place where concerned paddlers can debate issues pertaining to how our sport is run. It is a testiment to Seanie and this forum that paddlers from all disciplines come on here and talk/argue about how we want to see our sport progress. I'm a competitive K-boat paddler and i use this forum because it is a fantastic source of information and debate in our sport. I don't know the first thing about freestyle or whitewater paddling, but having read many of the posts on this site, i've come to the conclusion whitewater paddlers they are far more informed and concerned about our federation than most K-boaters...

My suggestion to the board: USE IT!!! Use this forum for all its worth. There are great guys on here who have great ideas about how to improve our sport. Sure, there will be criticism of how the board opperates, but criticism and debate used properly are fantastic tools to help build our sport back the way it should be.

We, the canoeing public have to also realise that canoeing is a tough sport to run from a governance perspective. You have a bunch of different minority disciplines, all fighting for a piece of the pie! We are not and will never be a unified sport. Its the same in cycling. The downhill cyclists don't care about the track guys and vice versa. Unfortunately, the Irish Sports Council (ISC) heavily fund our federation and they are only interested in one thing: OLYMPICS! Having dealt personally with the ISC, i can confirm that they have little or no interest in other disciplines unless it is seen as a route for talent into the Olympic disciplines. I competed at both the Irish Slalom and Irish Sprint Championships this season. In spite of fantastic efforts being made by both technical committees, both disciplines are dangerously thin on the ground when it comes to competitive numbers. But they get the lions share of the funding!!! Is it fair? NO! Is it likely to change? NO! Can the board do anything about it? ABSOLUTELY NOT! The funding structures which earmark money for Olympic disciplines are entirely out of the federation's control... But other sources of income could be identified and current sources of income could be enhanced. Canoeing can and (IMHO) will be a profitable sport!

Some suggestions which i've heard from Seanie and other members of this forum:

1) CI needs to reduce its reliance on ISC funding. Most members of the board would say thats not easy to do and they're probably right! It doesn't mean its not a good suggestion though. Realistically, ISC funding is not likely to increase in the current economic conditions. Most likely it will drop. Recessions are never easy for companies, but history tells us that sport thrives in a recession! Our sport, while likely to face drastic cuts from the Sports Council, is in a position to grow over the next few years if we market ourselves right! This involves creating and implementing a plan of enhancing income and reducing waste and inefficiency. It also involves better promotion of our sport! Promotion doesn't always cost money either....

Case-study: Eoin Rheinisch shows up at 2 or 3 Kildare schools following his success in the Olympics. Immediately, 50 or so kids rush out to join local canoe clubs. 3 years later, a bunch of them are still active and at least 2 are competing for Ireland internationally. Cost to the federation in terms of promotion was nothing!

2) Increase transparency at board level. Use http://www.canoe.ie as a place where minutes of board meetings can be archived and accessed. If there is an issue with confidentiality, blank out names and synopsise. Increasing transparency in the way our sport is run can only be a good thing.

3) Allow recreational paddler representation on the board. Why not set up a technical committee for recreational paddlers. Call it "the recreational/touring/sea kayaking committee"! This business of the TDU being the "voice of the people" is a load of tosh! The TDU plays an important role in the qualification and development of professional instructors in irish canoeing, it should not be the last bastion of public representation for the average joe paddler!

4)Allow intervarsity representation on the board. The intervarsity championships have most likely surpassed the Liffey Descent and are now THE biggest annual canoeing event in Ireland. How much input and support does CI provide? When Trinity ran the event a few years back, they simply contacted each technical committee and said "you know more about it than us, why dont you run the event?". So we had a proper WWR race run by the WWR committee, a proper marathon run out by the marathon committee, a proper Polo competition in Kilcock, run by the polo committee, a proper slalom at the Sluice run by... a bunch of people (Benny did a huge job and the Slalom committee didn't exist then thanks to the former CEO). Intervarsity canoeing is MASSIVE and should be embraced by the federation!

5) Improve the Liffey Descent. Always a topical issue. My opinion of this years race was that under the difficult circumstances, the organisers did a fantastic job and did it on a fraction of the cost of previous years. A great step in the right direction! Now everyone has opinions about the Liffey Descent and some are more valid than others. My vision of the Liffey is that we get it back the way it was in the 80's and 90's when it was the PREMIER descent race in Europe... So how do we do that???? I could write a thesis on this so perhaps for another thread......

6) Publish a full set of findings base on this year's investigation over the wrongdoings of previous board members. Investigate anyone who has been implicated in the findings of fact which were identified and take appropriate action to permanently remove them from this federation. We need to air the full extent of bad practice which took place before we can move on! Only then can paddlers be confident that we are now being governed properly by people determined to improve our sport.

Anyways, bottom line for me is that we're in a great position this year to fundamentally improve our sport! The board needs to listen to the opinions of the canoeing public and then begin the task of changing our sport for the better.. I think that process should begin at next month's AGM and thats why i think some (including myself) are a bit puzzled as to the rush to hire a new CEO! Anyways lets continue this healthy debate, work together to improve canoeing and most of all, lets not f*%c up this great opportunity... (No pressure) :lol:

P.S- Isn't it great to be arguing about the future of our sport instead of the past???

neiltilley
Posts:13
Joined:Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:44 am

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by neiltilley » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:25 pm

What Leftism has said about the Intervasities and college clubs is spot on.

The Intervarsities in my view have surpassed the Liffey Descent as Ireland premier, all inclusive competition. I ve had to pleasure of being at the last 3 and will be at my fourth in February. I cant wait for it.

The numbers at approx 300 arent as big as the Descents, but the standard is much higher and there is 4 fiercely competitive events in whitewater racing, freestyle, Polo and long distance racing.
The organising committees for the Varisties put a phenomenal amount of energy and dedication into making sure the events run well and the last 2 varsities have been outstanding events.
The mix of paddlers, from those who represent Ireland to the enthusiastic level 2 paddlers who have only been paddling for a few months makes for an incredible atmosphere at the events. The mixed gender teams also displays how progressive and inclusive the sport is at a college level.

In my opinion, the ICU doesnt do enough for college clubs or paddlers. I think the ICU dont take them seriously. The fact is that there are some very good paddlers at college level who have a lot to offer the sport nationally and the ICU should be getting behind them to further the sports appeal.

The ICU could do a lot worse than to get actively involved in the Varsities by providing financial, logististical and PR support to the Varsities. They might even learn a thing or two about how events should be run......

leftism
Posts:52
Joined:Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:14 pm

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by leftism » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:11 pm

+1 on that! I actually made a proposal to the Canoe Slalom committee at their last AGM that they should be actively pursuing the intervarsities champs and help run the slalom event for them. When Benny ran the intervarsities slalom for UCD (apologies again Kieran) it was the biggest slalom event in Ireland for well over a decade, with over 200 paddlers taking part. That sort of event is the ideal place to develop a minority sport like slalom and also scout for possible future Olympic talent. Logistically, slaloms are very tough events to run and its a shame that they don't always make the intervarsities programme. If the federation was helping EVERY year, we could be running successful slalom, marathon, WWR and polo comps for 300 to 400 paddlers annually...

Canoeing Ireland MUST embrace the Intervarsities for the fantastic event which it is!

WWR secretary
Posts:2
Joined:Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:59 pm

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by WWR secretary » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:11 pm

Thanks for that "Leftism", there may have been crossed wires but from an ICU/CI WWR Ctte point of view we understood that the Universities preferred racing in the creek boat/boatercross type format as opposed to the event we ran the Year previous as part of the Varsities in Celbridge which was the WWR ICF format of racing, which you did pretty good in :)

There is already a comprehensive ICU(CI) WWR calender in place with lots of events on rivers that cater for all abilities throughout the Country (not just Dublin based, something we made a big effort on this season) that students are more than welcome to attend as are all members of the ICU/CI.

On another note, I have to say at the Crana event it was great to see all the disciplines there competing on the same weekend, it gave everyone a chance to see whats going on in other types of paddlesport.

Kind regards,

Keith McGuirk
ICU WW Ctte secretary
secretary at irishwildwaterracing dot com

Sarah
Posts:7
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:33 pm

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by Sarah » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:24 pm

The ICU should look into supporting scout kayaking clubs more. There's been a significant improvement in kayaking already in the past two years since a malahide sea scout leader began an initiative with the icu to run kayak instructor courses with the scouts. Indeed I'd say the majority of instructors at level 1 and 2 level who qualified last year were scouts and are very useful in the kayaking community due to our volunteering nature. Take for example Paddlefest had a large amount of scout volunteers at it contributing to it's success.

And again huge huge contributions have been made to the Irish kayaking scene from kayakers such as Neil Slevin and Eoin Keyes to name just 2 who I believe both began kayaking in scouts and have represented Ireland at international level.

Funding and support from the ICU or Canoe Ireland ( I'm confused as to which to refer to now) would go an incredibly long way in scout groups who generally have very little funds to spend on kayaking and developing the sport within their clubs.

I believe in the past few years since ive begun kayaking that the ICU has been relatively close-minded with regards to the development of the sport. Obviously the TDU is a huge step forward but there's still a long way to go and investment through scouting would be a very worthwhile way to develop the sport.

canned
Posts:83
Joined:Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:37 am

Re: Seanie Should Stand for Election

Post by canned » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:16 pm

Couple of points....
No Noel, not everyone knows who you are. I googled you and here's where I found out who you are:
Seanie wrote:Its worth noting that Noel Tallon, the newly elected ICU treasurer, spotted these issues and acted on them. There are a lot good people within the organisation at the moment, and the ICU has some great assets, lets not be hasty and let any reform be thoughtful and measured.
I think it's incredibly conceited of any organisation or individual to single someone out because they have been willing to stand above the parapet and express their opinion. This has been the case for Seanie; as is evidenced by recordings of what can only be described as attacks on him at one previous AGM in particular. Personally, I think Seanie's use of language is an expression of how deeply he feels about the subject. For people to be so apparently vehement in their views against someone who has been so willing to examine, review and critique is very much a sign of the discomfort of knowing that there is something to the critique. Basically, if you thought everything was rosy, you wouldn't even have started this post.

The idea that you must be a part of a board/executive in order to share an opinion is absolutely outrageous. If you were to take this position to it's extreme conclusion you'd have a massive board and a bunch of sheep for members. I think having people who are interested in the direction and activities of CI but who does not sit on the board is great.

Without wanting to stroke Seanie's ego too much, I as a member massively appreciate the effort he has made on behalf of all members of CI.

In terms of communications, maybe it would be wise to open up some lines of communication. Often I feel when people are passionate about change, they expect it yesterday. And often, a suggestion of change from "outside" is met with suspicion. Perhaps it would be wise to discuss suggestions and possible problems in implementation in a more co-operative way? Sorry to say it but so far it appears there are few people who are willing to put the egos away and start looking at the picture in an objective and inclusive way....

Tony Canning (ULKC)

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