What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

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canned
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What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by canned » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:18 am

Yes it's an attention grabbing topic title but I know I'd like to know what's going on with our NGB with whom I have paid my membership.

Recently I've heard bits and bobs about someone in the ICU being suspended, I've also heard rumours of people making an effort with respect to having people meet up to discuss the situation. The most disgusting thing I have heard in a long time is that those who would have an honest discussion about our NGB's representation of membership paying punters has pretty much been BULLIED (word might be a bit strong but I'm gonna leave it there) into backing out of such honest discussion.

Amazingly, we have a situation where 3-4 people get a wage and they appear to be dictated to by a group of executives who supposedly represent us, the members, and who are interested in the same single discipline!? When am I going to be represented in this system? Or is it enough for the exec group to see the monies roll in every year at the Liffey Descent?

I hope this turns into an arguement to be honest. It should - hopefully something might come from it.


P.S. To be absolutely clear - I have massive respect for elements of the ICU - but it's a broken system really isn't it?

mikef
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Re: What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by mikef » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:28 am

I would have considered myself reasonably informed and maybe its because I'm out of the country but this is the first I've heard of all this craic. Can you go into more detail and name names?

Probably be a good idea to put links to the topic on irishfreestyle, surf kayak, canoepolo and boards.ie to get a good discussion going irishwhitewater is probably the least read forum.

I pay my membership every year, I've done the liffey descent three years in a row I've only ever gone as far a to do my level 3 other that all that I use my membership to enter competitions to be "covered" by insurance. I've organised some of these competitions myself and I don't know how much you would get for any accident if something ever happened. I always though it would be easier for everyone to sign a disclaimer to enter an event and provide sufficient rescue between ourselves but its a hard call to make with little legal background information when it'll end up on the head of the competitions office if something happens. I dunno what I really get from my membership which is more like a gun being held to me to say pay up or stay out of events for the year. Including in recent years some of the varsities.

I look forward to hearing more.

mikef

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Re: What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by canned » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:21 am

Mike,
I'm reluctant to say as much as I've heard as it appears pettiness may come into it and I would prefer not to name names as there are those I feel deserve to be complained about and those who deserve praise - I won't mention one without the other so I won't mention either I think.

What I'll say about what I've heard is:
an ICU employee is currently suspended pending a question over money.
all has escalated to legal level.

That may seem like "just" one issue but there are obvious knock on effects which need to be thought about.
What if all members (through clubs or not) decided that they don't know where their money is going and therefore just didn't bother? I know in ULKC our SU has previously allowed clubs to associate with a governing body outside of Ireland if the case could be made that the support/ethos was better. Could clubs go en mass to a different GB?
The thought of that to me is frightening. The idea that people pay their money to an organisation that appears to be blinkered in their focus sickens me though. (and I absolutely accept that there are specific disciplines which shouldn't be neglected - only my opinion though)

A few years ago there was a pretty passionate thread on here about the death of the low brace turn, yet it's still in there for whitewater proficiency - why has this STILL not changed? I haven't met an instructor worth anything that wants to teach it anymore (unless as an example of how valid more dynamic methods are) There appears to be an in-bred reluctance to communicate with members and take on what they have to say.......

Concerned members felt a non-ICU meeting which I believe was to discuss the overall situation appears to have been suppressed. Which suggests to me that there is a fundamental communication problem (on top of apparent ego and control problems)

Tony

PS - I think I'll put my original post up on boards.ie Mike - thanks for the suggestion. It's probably the most central place for it.

Adrians
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Re: What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by Adrians » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:37 pm

Tony,

I first heard of this maybe around 4/5 months ago and I'm sure even back then the situation had being playing out for some time before hand. To say I was more than a little shocked to hear what had been happening and even more so that the wider community was oblivious to what was happening was an understatement.

I admire you for stepping forward and being the first to post this in a public forum it wasn't something I was willing to do not only as its had know all the facts but the person involved I have great respect for in my years of dealing with them.

As you said this has arrived at a stage where there are legal proceedings involved, I think its only fair to the person involved that they are innocent of any transgression until proven otherwise. It would not be fair to have some sort of sudo witch hunt of this or any person via an internet forum.

However you are very correct when you say the ICU or ICU Executive Board are accountable to its members and to that effect I would really like to know what is happening on a Board level. I'm sure they are withheld from going into great detail if a legal case prevents them from doing so but some sort of communication with its members is most definitely needed. Having attended ICU AGM's in the past I am more than aware of how much of an "Old boys club" the Executive appear and how difficult it can be to deal with and slow to take on change. Regardless if you or I like it the executive is voted in by general members of the ICU.

I'm sure there are other out there whom know far more about the legalities of the situation but as the ICU Board is answerable to the "Companies Act" I'm sure its very possible for share holders of the company ie ICU Members to fill the criteria to call an EAGM if they feel that they are not getting the communication / service / whatever they deserve.


As for the other points raised, from what I'm aware the Liffey Descent is a loss making venture, and the syllabus is a whole other kettle of fish whom we would have to try track down the Training Board for. Incidentally who is on the Training Unit currently, last I heard there were vacancies following the last Training Unit AGM?

Just in case the tone of this post does not come across correctly I admire Tony for raising the topic and would like some communication from our ICU Executive and President on this sooner rather than later. I will be contacting the board myself to seek out a reply on this topic.


Adrian

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Seanie
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Re:What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by Seanie » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:09 pm

I've removed the posts for now. Let me explain why.

As Tony pointed out there is a process happening within the ICU at the moment, it may or may not be legal in nature. The outcome of this process is not known, the full facts are not know, any one who would tell you otherwise is misinformed. The ICU is a registered company, and as such it has to behave as a company, this process would fall under that description. From what I'm aware of, the ICU board are using professional best practices at the moment, and are proceeding as they have been advised to do so.

Just by discussing it, even in vague terms, it could negatively impact any possible action(s) taken or arising from it, or libel an innocent person. i.e. no good can come from the discussion of it until the process concludes, other than having a good gossip. To be fair to all parties involved, the ICU, employees, etc. I'm not going to allow speculation on this forum, until the process has concluded and the facts of matter are out. Then by all means, have at it.

If you would like to discuss this matter further, please feel free to email me:
[email protected]

PS. I'd rather to view this as an embargo, rather than censorship. I'll return the post when the time comes.

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Seanie
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Re: Re:What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by Seanie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:42 pm

I've gotten a good few emails and a few calls from concerned ICU members about the ICU. Some want to hold an EGM to elect new executive member's and change some of the ICU's governing rules. While an EGM in itself isn't a bad thing, in fact its good to get the members together as often as possible, but I believe on this occasion the motivations for the EGM are misguided. And borne of fear, rather than fact. People are getting very, very jumpy.

The reason the ICU board or ICU Chairperson hasn't addressed concerns are because they cant talk about it, by law. The technical reason the matter cant be discussed by the ICU is because the process is 'sub judice' (under judgement) at this point. And how the 'the process' is and has been carried out is dictated by best practises as advised by legal council, that wont change no matter who is on the ICU board. And there are other organisations like the Irish Sports Council that have an interest in making sure things are done correctly.

Some people have taken to filling this information vacuum with all sorts of nonsense, for whatever reason. Muddying the water at this point doesn't help the ICU. I couldn't think of a worse time to take away the ICU boards time and resources.Let the process run its course, then start reform within the ICU at an EGM or AGM.

Please question the 'facts' that have been circulating, some of them are plain falsehoods.

Again, for the sake of fairness, I'm locking this thread. If you have something that you would like to add to this thread that can be posted, please email it to me at [email protected].

All the best,
Seanie

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Re: What the f*ck is going on with the ICU?

Post by Seanie » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:51 pm

Unlocked and recovered posts.

See the announcement.

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