Van Tax Increase!!

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decgforce
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Van Tax Increase!!

Post by decgforce » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:36 pm

Environment Minister John Gormley has ordered local authorities to force drivers of commercial 4X4s and small vans to legally declare that they will not use them for any social, domestic or pleasure purposes.

Under the changes, owners of all commercial 4X4s will have to sign a new Goods Only Declaration in a garda station. They will have to state the vehicle will not be used "at any time for social, domestic or pleasure purposes".

If they sign the declaration and subsequently get caught by gardai using the vehicle for shopping, going to Mass or dropping children off at school -- or any other private run -- they will face fines and possibly prison.

Alternatively, they will have to pay an average of €1,204 instead of the reduced rate of €288 for commercial motor tax.

In the directive -- issued to local authorities on August 10 last -- motor tax officials are told to insist that all owners of commercial vehicles sign the revised RF111A declaration.

The councils are told to look for the declaration to be completed and for a more thorough assessment of existing declarations. This requires the owners to provide a tax clearance cert, their VAT registration details, commercial insurance certificate or other business registration detail.

A spokesman for Mr Gormley last night said the directive was issued to local authorities in a bid to close a loophole whereby owners of commercial 4X4s used largely for personal use were paying motor tax at the commercial rate instead of the private rate.

"There has been an increase in people trying to avoid paying motor tax by claiming that the vehicle is used solely for commercial use. People are trying to exploit this tax loophole," the spokesman added.

This might mean nothing to most of you but I know of a few surfers with vans in my locality that are screwed thanks to this turn around. I know of a few lads that have been asked for VAT numbers when renewing their tax and havent been able to provide one. Having seriously considered buying a van for ages due to extra space and added security its now not looking good!
Anyone else caught out??

(Extracts lifted from the Irish Indo)

christramp
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by christramp » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:15 am

I cant comment on having experience of being caught out but similarly I had planned to buy a van this year and run with a business I have but I could not rule out using it for shool runs or kayak shuttles as it would have to be my every day vehicle
This really is a fine example of the state going for the easy win - forget getting the banks and directors to pay back what they owe or even challlenging the FAS on their past spending / current value for money.
I live in west wicklow where the guards love setting up road checks (Good weather permitting) for tax, breath tests and diesel this just gives another reason to pull drivers over (Allthough I completely agree with the breath test checks)
I am going to have to rethink my vehicle choice, I dont want a big engine vehicle simply a van that can hold stock and still allow me some personal use.
They are now considering an ATM tax to stop banks holding excess cash and preventing tiger raids - come on - seriously we have been persuaded for years to use ATMS instead of counters and now we are being told to stop using ATMS. Ah I get the idea lets leave our money in the banks for them to spend it and us to struggle - sound familiar.
Spending on business support and back to work training would be much more appreciated and productive.
Cheers
Chris

J.K.
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by J.K. » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:22 am

Well fuck that, if I go for a van instead of a car, I'll be ignoring that. At my peril, surely, but it's my small token fuck you to something I don't agree with, and I would only be using it purely for SDP purposes.

If I did use it for work and play, I'd still insist on paying solely the commercial tax.

ruairi og
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Joined:Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by ruairi og » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:17 pm

unfortunately this a law which has always been in place but never enforced before. i do know of 3 people who have taxed their vans in the last week and were not asked for and information regarding use of vehicle. they got commercial tax.

Paul W
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Joined:Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:09 pm

Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Paul W » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:32 pm

This is simple to get around if your stopped just say you are on call and you might have to go to work, the garda dont have access to your work record so they cant say your not. Im lucky enough to be in an industry were this is the case but i do use my 4X4 for personal use, and just think of the carbon foot print if we were all to buy more cars. I know lots of lads who work as employees yet they use their own vans for work how are the tax office gona manage this as its against the law to use someone elses VAT number for your gain. This is a law they cant enforce, yet again cowan and co have made dicks of them selves. Im all up for saving the planet but the greens are taking the piss as always. Its alright for the ministers with their very large salaries to preach to the rest of us about paying higher car tax when they pay less than the rest of the country. I think a protest is in order every one with a commercial car, van or 4X4 should do a rolling protest in town or on the M50 against this stupid law. If im asked to sign this decleration the next time im taxing my jeep i will refuse and if the tax office wont tax the jeep i will ask for a reason in writing why they have refused to give me tax and i will put this in my tax disc holder. Also if your paying full tax for your commercial vehicle do you still need a DOE? or do you get an NCT?

Gormley if by any chance you get to read this your a dick head and i hope you choke on my diesel fumes

Paul W

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Seanie
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Seanie » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:30 am

Paul W wrote:Gormley if by any chance you get to read this your a dick head and i hope you choke on my diesel fumes

Paul W
Paul, I don't think he will read this, so can you spear us. Thanks.

The sky isnt falling folks. They are just closing a loophole.

As was said earlier, for most cases this law isn't that enforceable, and wont effect these people. This "law" is simply giving a tool to the Gardi and Revenue to take developers and self employed to task if they put the wife in a company van/4x4. Have any of ye been outside a school over the last few years, its like their taping the next Top Gear episode. A lot of the 4x4 runarounds are registered as being company vehicles and are used exclusively by their significant other. I think ye'll agree that this is a loop hole worth closing.

A few other points like the VAT issue mentioned earlier are without merit. If you're legitimately using you're vehicle commercially you'll be able to register it as such.

And as for tax's, well things are going to get far far worse. We have at least three more hardcore budgets to go.

Niall
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Niall » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:23 pm

The sky isnt falling folks. They are just closing a loophole.
I have to say I disagree, for some of us it is a very big deal
We keep horses, legally to tow the horse box we have to have a 4X4. This is taxed on the commercial rate. Now we are going to have to get another car in order to go to the shops as we can be fined/imprisoned for doing so in the 4X4 else pay the extra what...800 euro? Else the solution will be bringing the horse and horsebox everywhere we go, using more fuel etc which kinda defeats the purpose of this!

So rather than helping the environment we are going to end up with either additional car on the road, burning fuel and oil or else pay an extra 800 euro every year and be in the same situation we were in to begin with.
Where is the sense in this? It is simply a money earner for the government and has nothing to do with the environment, the vast majority of farmers around the country are going to get caught with this too, having to have 4WD vehicles for the farm and paying extra tax for no benefit at all.

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Seanie
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Seanie » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:49 pm

Niall wrote:Now we are going to have to get another car in order to go to the shops as we can be fined/imprisoned for doing so in the 4X4 else pay the extra what...800 euro? Else the solution will be bringing the horse and horsebox everywhere we go, using more fuel etc which kinda defeats the purpose of this!

So rather than helping the environment we are going to end up with either additional car on the road, burning fuel and oil or else pay an extra 800 euro every year and be in the same situation we were in to begin with.
I'm not an apologist for the government, but there seems to be some nonsensical things being said here.

1. I doubt anyone is going to buy, tax, and insure an additional car rather than pay the 800 euros extra. If someone does, please send them my way I've got a bridge I want to sell them.
Niall wrote:Where is the sense in this? It is simply a money earner for the government and has nothing to do with the environment
2. It probably does have a bit to do with generating more income, but I'd say it has something to do with the environment also.
Keeping horses isn't a commercial activity. Why would you qualify for commercial tax in the first place? I'm fairly sure that paying a high rate of tax to use a 4x4 for recreational purses is the idea behind the taxation code in the first place. And that's why you'll be paying the extra 800 euros.
Niall wrote:the vast majority of farmers around the country are going to get caught with this too, having to have 4WD vehicles for the farm and paying extra tax for no benefit at all.
3. I don't think you're correct there. Farmers are actually commercial, and legitimately qualify for commercial tax. They'll be fine, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post.

Paul W
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Paul W » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:34 am

This "law" is simply giving a tool to the Gardi and Revenue to take developers and self employed to task if they put the wife in a company van/4x4. Have any of ye been outside a school over the last few years, its like their taping the next Top Gear episode. A lot of the 4x4 runarounds are registered as being company vehicles and are used exclusively by their significant other. I think ye'll agree that this is a loop hole worth closing.

I think your missing the point here Seanie

Some people only have a commercials as their work and main car, not every one can afford two cars and its the people who cant will suffer. Just because some one is self employed or a developer it doesnt mean they are loaded with cash. I know lots of people who will not benifit from this so i dont think this is a loop hole worth closing, if some one has the get up and go to start a business and make jobs for people there should be some small perks. And yes i have been outside the school in last while and I do watch top gear and they are not running 5 and 10 year old vans/cars and 4X4 around the track.

Regarding the farmers i do think they should be let off with this as they put food on our tables and so on but they do not legitimately qualify for commercial tax if they are going to the shops for the morning paper or if they are dropping the kids to school, that is the point of this law. And lets be honest if you meet a Gardi who is having a bad day he might just push this.

I think we should use the same car tax system as the uk one price fits all. That would solve all of these problems. In Ireland we pay more for our cars and tax than most of our European counterparts

Paul W

J.K.
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by J.K. » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:59 am

Pah, if you're suggesting alternatives, then ditch car tax in its entirety, and load it all onto fuel. Then the guy who owns a four litre V8 and drives it twice a month doesn't have to pay fifteen hundred quid on tax, and the guy who owns a one litre micra and does sixty miles a day pays more, as he's the bigger polluter.

Paul W
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Paul W » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:29 pm

This would only punish every one who is in the transport business and would put people off the road altogether. I fully agree that the guy with the V8 that only drives twice a month shouldnt have to pay fifteen hundred euro even if he drove it every day.

Niall
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by Niall » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:37 pm

I doubt anyone is going to buy, tax, and insure an additional car rather than pay the 800 euros extra. If someone does, please send them my way I've got a bridge I want to sell them.
Well that's what the government has been suggesting when asked to clarify this!

Keeping horses isn't a commercial activity. Why would you qualify for commercial tax in the first place? I'm fairly sure that paying a high rate of tax to use a 4x4 for recreational purses is the idea behind the taxation code in the first place. And that's why you'll be paying the extra 800 euros.
Nope it isn't an entirely commercial activity, in a lot of cases it is though, but you legally have to have the 4X4 for towing the horse trailer. It's a bit of a lose/lose situation. I don't like having to own a 4X4 as it uses a shocking amount of fuel, especially when bringing boats. As paul has already stated, we have to have the 4WD but do not qualify for the commercial tax. Most farmers are in this situation and are going to get raped for tax!

tiernan
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Re: Van Tax Increase!!

Post by tiernan » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:30 pm

From the Irish Times today: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing27.html
The number of new cars licensed last month was more than double the level recorded in September 2009, according to figures from the Central Statistics Office (CSO).

There were 4,683 new private cars licensed (taxed) in September, compared with 2,272 in September of last year, representing a year on year increase of 106.1 per cent.

However, the number of new goods vehicles licensed in September fell by 13.6 per cent to 671, down from 777 in the same month last year.

The CSO said there was a 62.8 per cent increase in the number of vehicles licensed overall from 3,583 in September 2009 to 5,802 last month.

In terms of model, the most popular new private cars licensed in September were Renault (752), Toyota (681), Volkswagen (479), Ford (432) and Opel (319)

Some 2,997 of the new vehicles registered were diesel, 64 per cent, while 1,405 were petrol (30 per cent).
I'm sure the increase in car tax for diesel cars isn't anything personal against the farmers but more a retaliation against the abuse of the system.

I would deffo favour taxing fuel instead of an annual payment... has anyone suggested this to the government?? they would probably get more money out of it!!

Tiernan

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