Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Irish Kayaking and Canoeing discussion forum.

Moderators:Seanie, EoinH

Post Reply
lorcanmcd
Posts:1
Joined:Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:19 pm
Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by lorcanmcd » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:15 pm

I've been asked by the local fishery to inform paddlers that due to the high levels of spawning fish in the Owenroe river at present, they would like the paddling community to refrain from paddling here over the christmas and new year period.

The other rivers in the fishery area, Upper Caragh and Caragh Beg are not affected by this request.

Please show some level of respect and observe this request.

Thank You

Lorcan

canned
Posts:83
Joined:Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:37 am

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by canned » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:38 pm

Check out page 16.....
http://www.kayakingisnotacrime.org.uk/Access.pdf

here's the full report - see pg 32 for conclusions.....
http://publications.environment-agency. ... 66-e-p.pdf

User avatar
Seanie
Posts:841
Joined:Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:27 pm

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by Seanie » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:25 pm

7. CONCLUSIONS
The general conclusion from this study is that canoeing is not harmful to fish populations.
Therefore, the main area of conflict between anglers and canoeist centres around the
disturbance of angling, which to a greater or lesser degree is dependent on the intensity and duration of canoeing activity. Disturbance is in turn allied to the concept of exclusivity with its attendant financial implications for riparian interests and anglers.


The current debate regarding a general improvement in access to the countryside is considered
to be potentially damaging to fisheries interests, in the context of English law ownership
rights. Therefore in line with the Governments Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Review Group
recommendation, any increased access should be on a local basis, with full consultation of all
those with existing legal rights. Access to sporting rights is outside the scope of fisheries
legislation and it would be inappropriate to use it to obtain increased access for one group of
users over another.

The suggested way forward to improve access for canoeists whilst reducing conflict with
anglers is via further development of voluntary access agreements but within the framework
the Fisheries Action Plans proposed by the Review Group. The precise format of such Action
Plans needs to be developed but it is envisaged that they will form an integral part of the
LEAP framework, and as such should provide a useful vehicle as the basis for discussion on a
catchment specific basis. This format could be used to explore the possibility of temporal and
spatial zonation of waterway use where conditions are appropriate.

The need for an effective communication network that will benefit anglers and canoeists has
been identified and the role of the Agency in forming the Angling & Canoeing Liaison Group
to be welcomed. Use of modern technology, particularly the Internet to disseminate
information on Access Agreements in place, Codes of Conduct etc. is seen as an important
development in this regard and offers new opportunities for the future.

The financial issues surrounding exclusivity can perhaps be dealt with more imaginatively.
Where voluntary access agreements are successfully negotiated, opportunities for increased
revenues may be apparent in some cases with charges for parking, launching, and permits
being possible. Alternatively reduced rents following a removal of exclusivity may be
appropriate, with the income shortfall being balanced by revenues from other users, such as
canoeists. Finally, the same English law ownership rights that benefit anglers are available to
canoeists if they wish to pursue them allowing a reversal of the revenue streams referred to
above.
Just to save people the hassle of downloading the lot.

User avatar
Seanie
Posts:841
Joined:Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:27 pm

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by Seanie » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:25 pm

While I 100% agree with the point I assume Tony (canned) is making, I would be in favor of 'choosing our battles' in this case.

When the lack of legislation with regard to access comes to a head, we should choose the best example to make our case.

The argument will then default to these two points;
Therefore, the main area of conflict between anglers and canoeist centres around the
disturbance of angling, which to a greater or lesser degree is dependent on the intensity and duration of canoeing activity. Disturbance is in turn allied to the concept of exclusivity with its attendant financial implications for riparian interests and anglers.
1. The disturbance of angling.
2. The concept of exclusivity with its attendant financial implications for riparian interests and anglers.

I'm not sure if we have our ducks in a row with respect to these two points when it comes to the Owenroe. I'd be one for letting it go, in this case.

When it comes to national access legislation I don't believe the Fisheries Bord or private fisheries will have much sway, I think the IFA would, and they will definitely get involved when it comes to it. I think we should only make an issue out of it when its a black and white case that clearly outlines the access issue and how silly it all is.

(PS. I'm not ignoring the point that some people have made, there are tons of other rivers in Kerry to paddle, I just think its a weak argument. Where does the argument behind that logic end?)

canned
Posts:83
Joined:Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:37 am

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by canned » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:00 pm

More than anything I only put it up as information so people can make their own decisions. IMO if a river has sufficient water on it it's fair game for paddling while still respecting other water users of course.

I'm not in any way encouraging any kind of "bandit" attitude to paddling - simply that we shouldn't be conned into believing we're doing wrong by paddling respectfully.

As regards picking battles - I agree, we should be wise to what we chose to engage in - in this situation though, given the studies have been done, it would appear that paddling respectfully at sufficient water levels is engaging in nothing but the enjoyment of the sport

Nails
Posts:3
Joined:Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by Nails » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:44 pm

If you were running an event like a boaterX on a river out of politeness most would probably inform the fisheries so that their members can try keep clear of the river for the day/days that the competition is running.

In my opinion, I would respect their wish not to paddle there for a while, in fairness they have been kind enough to give paddlers a heads up rather than wait till ye make the effort of getting on the river and then biting your head of.

Ye its up to every1 to make their own decision to paddle or not (+ to fish or not!) but i personally think this shoulnt be thought of as a battle for rights but a friendly request for mutual respect between the two sports.

Thats all
Eimear

User avatar
Seanie
Posts:841
Joined:Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:27 pm

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by Seanie » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:54 am

This is relevant to the conversation.

http://www.irishwhitewater.com/river_gu ... 2#comments
by:Dr Martin O'Farrell

The fishing rights of the Lower Caragh River are owned by Seefin Fisheries Ltd. Anglers pay to fish this water and have a right to peaceful enjoyment of their fishing - without intrusion from canoeists. Accordingly, information on the Lower Caragh River should be removed from your website.

canned
Posts:83
Joined:Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:37 am

Re: Owenroe River, Co. Kerry

Post by canned » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:59 pm

I guess that's the crux of where we seem to be headed.

Yes, fishermen and all users should feel they are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their respective sports and activities. No, we shouldn't feel obliged to staying completely invisible to fishermen or any other users who feel they have more of a right to it all than anyone else. I certainly don't feel we should lay over just to keep the peace especially when an awful lot of these types of request are based on ulterior motives and lack of understanding.

I'm not talking about any kind of militant attitude or taking it on to go to the Owenroe or anywhere else just to make a point. But there is info out there as outlined in previous posts that says we have little or no effect on fish stocks - so why allow the misinformation that we cause a problem to percolate?
As regards the doctor's comment - he refers to fishing rights and not access. Is he suggesting that we should still stay off outside of fishing season? Is he suggesting that because fishermen pay that we have contributed nothing financial? We're not fishing so why is it that they seem to feel to have such a say over our sport?
People can share the water. Paddling by respectfully does not spoil a day's fishing......

Post Reply