Discussion re: ICU recommendations

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J.K.
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:53 am

Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by J.K. » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:00 am

Hey folks,
I was having a scan through this post Seanie put up on the front page, fair play man. It's really well researched. But something that kind of jumped out at me was the last point:
"Membership fees are only paid by competitive members. Fees for recreational members covered by Club Registration Fee. Club registration €100 pa and a capitation fee of €10 per senior competitive member and €5 per junior competitive member above a free 50 junior membership ceiling per club. Registration fees for recreational members covered by the club registration fee."
It's deemed important enough to be said twice, more than any other piece of information.

That sounds cool, doesn't it? If we don't compete, we don't have to pay any registration fee at all to the ICU as long as we're in an affiliated club. This is a document signed by the CEO of the ICU, so it can't get any more of a concrete approval.

But that doesn't jibe with... well, any experience of the ICU I've ever had. I've had to pay my money out for individual membership every damn year if I recall correctly, and I'm in an affiliated club.
Either I've paid my money into some unnecessary black hole year after year, or the club is doing the same. It seems I've paid twice.
If people are aware of this, it can save them hundreds, if not thousands of pounds. Where the bloody hell is this money going, if we're being charged twice?
What do ye people feel about this point, or indeed any that Seanie raises?

annie
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Location: Galway

Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by annie » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:29 pm

To take one recommendation at a time:

According to the ICU statement, if you don't compete, but want to do say an instructor course, as long as you are a registered member of your club you shouldn't have to pay individual membership?

Sounds great! But that isn't what's implemented, is it?

Can people pull me up if I've got this wrong.

Unless I am missing something here, I 100% support the recommendation that the ICU clarify this statement for all members.

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rlynch
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by rlynch » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

Likewise.
We would leave home in the morning and could play all day, as long as we were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us and no one minded!

muirs
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by muirs » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:06 pm

Where is that quote on membership taken from? Is it possible it is an old document (since most of Seanie's stuff is from 06 and 07). The current ICU website says quite clearly:
Membership of the Canoe Union
There are two ways of joining the Irish Canoe Union


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Direct Membership
Costs €20 and is valid for 12 months from the date of issue. To join, just download the application form below and return with appropriate fee to the ICU Office. Alternatively, join over the phone by calling 01-6251105.

Membership through an ICU Registered Club
A currently ICU Registered Club can register its club members as ICU Members at any time while the club is registered with the Canoe Union. The Annual Club Registration Fee is €100 and the fee per club member to be registered as an ICU Member is €10.

Please note: Only the secretary of an ICU Registered Club can register club members with the Canoe Union. A club member's registration with the Canoe Union expires when the club's registration expires, regardless of when that person paid their club membership fee.
Annie - by doing an instructor course you are registered with the ICU training unit, rather than just as a normal plebby member, which has separate membership requirements, check their website for info.

To be honest - if you're not competing / coaching why bother joining? If you are, a tenner isn't that much to ask to cover you for insurance for the year...

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rlynch
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by rlynch » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:20 pm

I don't think it's a matter of it being a problem spending €10. However, if €10 is being needlessy spent by every non-competitive member of an affiliate club… why? Again, it's a matter of clarity.
We would leave home in the morning and could play all day, as long as we were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us and no one minded!

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Seanie
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by Seanie » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:31 pm

I know that a few people have tried emailing the ICU for clarification on this, to this date no clear reply has been given. In some cases no reply at all.
muirs wrote:Where is that quote on membership taken from? Is it possible it is an old document (since most of Seanie's stuff is from 06 and 07). The current ICU website says quite clearly:
That statement was taken from the last two ISC grant applications (and I think its in a few previous years too), signed my the ICU CEO Mr. Scanlon. To my knowledge no changes have been made at committee level or general meeting level over the last few years to change things.

Why would they send this to the ISC?
muirs wrote: To be honest - if you're not competing / coaching why bother joining? If you are, a tenner isn't that much to ask to cover you for insurance for the year...
If the JK's quoted statement is correct, you wouldn't have to pay the 10Euros as insurance covers all members.

Ultimately I would have to go with Ross on this:
kernel wrote:I don't think it's a matter of it being a problem spending €10. However, if €10 is being needlessy spent by every non-competitive member of an affiliate club… why? Again, it's a matter of clarity.

J.K.
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by J.K. » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:28 pm

muirs wrote:To be honest - if you're not competing / coaching why bother joining? If you are, a tenner isn't that much to ask to cover you for insurance for the year...
Ugh, I hate that attitude. Our governing body cannot be a strong force without the support of its members. The old "Can't do anything til we're strong enough/ no point joining cos yo ucan't do anything for me" conundrum springs to mind.
In an ideal world where the ICU was actually a benevolent, helpful, resourceful and welcoming entity, we'd all want to join so it'd have the power to fight for our interests on a national level.
Any union is crippled from the get go if its members are apathetic.

And yeah., what the lads said.

annie
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Location: Galway

Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by annie » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:32 am

I suppose this if off-topic from specific recommendations but:

I'm with JK, you should want to join your Union, because it should be that good, or at least more beneficial to you than not joining.

And if it isn't, it's up to its members to make it that way.

Polo Eoin
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by Polo Eoin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:22 am

Basis of this thread wrote: Membership fees are only paid by competitive members. Fees for recreational members covered by Club Registration Fee. Club registration €100 pa and a capitation fee of €10 per senior competitive member and €5 per junior competitive member above a free 50 junior membership ceiling per club. Registration fees for recreational members covered by the club registration fee."
I had always assumed this was the case. ie That by being a member of an iCU affiliated club I was automatically a recreational member of the ICU and so was covered by whatever insurance they have (not that I actually no too much about that, different point of Sean's Recommendations)

Whenever I wanted to compete in anything in a given year (and become a senior competitive member) I just sent off me tenner in the post and signed off by club secretary and got my ICU number. By competing I'm including the Descent, Freestyle comps, Polo comps, Surf comps........anything competitive

I have (obviously mistakenly) always assumed that this is how every club works.

tiernan
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by tiernan » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:33 am

So does that mean that anyone in an affiliated club (and over 21 years old of course) could turn up at the AGM and vote? or for voting privileges does one have to be a competitive member??

T

Polo Eoin
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by Polo Eoin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:41 pm

I dunno but I would assume all recreational members have a vote, provided your name was on a list of members that your club gave the ICU when it was joining up.

Then again assumptions are the mother of all Tiernans.

The over 21's thing is a bit much, where'd that come out of originally? I know people are lookin to cut it to 18, fair point, should maybe even drop to 16, old enough to leave school and get a job.

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Seanie
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by Seanie » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:10 pm

The 21 things is only for delegates. A senior member of a club is anyone over 18 I assume.

And Eoin if it were the case as you have outlined it, NUIG has well over 1000 registered fully paid up members.

Polo Eoin
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Re: Discussion re: ICU recommendations

Post by Polo Eoin » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:59 pm

In 2006 P/L account €32000 from members and clubs
3100 members
92 clubs
So with junior members half price or free (up to 50 per club) that would near enough work out as only counting those who contribute their 10/5 euro as members.

Could this explain the 1000 member drop-off 02 to 06? (I really doubt it) BUT... Between a rise in the number of competitive youngsters/newbies paying/free and the ICU not counting the recreational paddlers which they may have back in 02 you could get this effect.

I'm makin a lot of jumps here (and playing devils advocate) but hey...

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