Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

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Adrians
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Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Adrians » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:20 pm

Hi all,

Just something I have been thinking about over the last while re the Avonmore river gauge. Before I start I want to say I greatly admire Eoin's abaility and effort in building the gauge, I know I couldn't have done it.

The question I would like to throw out there is in the graphing of the gauge here on irishwhitewater.com. My point is that both my self and a few other boaters were of the opnion it was set a wee bit on the low side, as in when it now says that the river is running medium according to the gauge it is in fact running low ( Or what I would have alwasy known as low / agreed by Mr Steve Fahey the river local and not a bad paddler either :lol: ).

I would suggest the if possible we re adjust the the graph to look a little more like this. See pic below.

Now I know some people are thinking if you already know what the level will be like by combining what the gauge says and my own experience so why change it. My reason is that in order for the gauge to be as effictive as possible and to be a resource for kayakers all over the country who may not have any local knowlege, it is best to have the most accurate data available to them.

So I've already being talking to Seanie who informs me that is not a huge deal to sort out. Now all we need to see is am I way off the mark in what I am suggesting? Should we just leave things as they are? Have you say and Seanie can decide what to do from there.

For those who don't know the levels according to the gauge too well, If ou look at the pic I attached around the Sunday mark I paddled the river at this level with Steve F & Kat, the gauge would have us believe this is a medium level where in our estimation the river was low (or as we always would have know as low, we did our level 4 assesment on this streach in 99/2000 so we have paddled it once or twice since then :roll: ). Low = rocks not covered at troperstown get in. The adtional lines onthe attached image are what I would suggest adjusting the gauge to. :)


Anyway after all that let your views be heard!
Attachments
River gauge.JPG

dave f
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by dave f » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:24 am

Hi Adrian,

i have to agree, more than a few times I've been on the Annamoe gorilla paddling and wondering if the guage I'd checked that morning was right or not! I think it could do with a bit of a tweak...


My two cents worth anyway!


Dave

p.s Not sure what you would adjust it by though. When you paddled withous last Friday evening it was bony enough in places, although Jacksons was quite busy! I'm sure you have a happy median in mind!!

Adrians
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Adrians » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:55 am

dave f wrote: Not sure what you would adjust it by though. When you paddled withous last Friday evening it was bony enough in places, although Jacksons was quite busy! I'm sure you have a happy median in mind!!
Dave,

The level Jacksons was at last friday evening is what I would have always considered low, i.e the rocks on river right half way down the falls are just about covered.

I think that because the river is run so often at super scrapy levels there perceptions of "Jacksons grade 4 rapid" may have become a little skewed? So when its actually running at what would have always been considered medium level they think its tanking down. :roll:

Agian these are just my views and muesings and are totaly up for critism or for other people to express there opnions. :)

Jacksons description from river guide wrote:acksons (IV-c): The entrance rapid is quite long. As you are wombling down this rapid stay centre and when it becomes obvious that you are approaching the falls stay left. You will pass a shelf which spans three quarters of the river from the right bank. This bar forms a nasty to really nasty towback stopper in medium to high water and is generally where any painful jacksons run has its origins. below this bar there are eddies left and right., again below the next small rapid there are big eddies left and right above jacksons falls. tradition is to take out river left at either of the eddies and set rescue in the bottom on the left in jacksons depending on the strength of your group. Inspect/boat scout/run jacksons and little jacksons. as i mentioned above this drop varies in severity and difficulty and consequences depending on water level. (IV-c low water/ IVd medium to high water/ V-e mega water due to horrific terminal stopper at little jacksons)
Last edited by Adrians on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ken
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Location: DCU
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Ken » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:56 am

I'd agree that the gauge needs adjusting. Ran it on Sunday too and was expecting it to be a bit higher based on the gauge. Maybe it would be an idea only to move the "High" line, as the river is (just barley) still runnable around the green line even if it'll be an almighty scrape. Than on days like last Sunday while It'd be a bit above the green line it would still be clearly bellow medium level which would prob give a more accurate view of it.

eoinor
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by eoinor » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:48 pm

To be honest when I first put in the gauge we just made up the levels, we had to put the lines somewhere.
I don't mind where they go, I thought they were ok but if people want them moved go ahead.

Also, the solar panel has been moved and a few other problems sorted, so the number for the gauge is 0862667176.
Please only ring it if you need to need too, and If a group is going paddling only one person needs to ring it. If too many people ring it it will kill the battery and I'll have to change the number.

eoinor

Roberd
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:22 pm

Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Roberd » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:44 pm

Firstly, thanks to all involved in the river gauges, it a great resource.
Now this is only a musing on my part, as I'm in no position to be of any help (no computing skills what-so-ever) but I was thinking of this over the last while, every day looking at the gauge, waiting for it to update and trying to guess how high it would tomorrow, wouldn't it be useful if someone with the ability (and permissions obviously) were to graph the rainfall data from the weather station in Annamoe (http://www.annamoe.net/index.htm) on the Annamoe river graph.
Then if there is a reasonable correlation between the rainfall in Annamoe and the flow in the river (cause it's possible that there isn't much of a one), then you would have a reasonable forecast, a day or so in advance, of what level the river is going to be, and plan your paddling accordingly.
This mightn't be possible for any number of reasons, but wouldn't it be really cool if it were!
Robert

Adrians
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Adrians » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:02 pm

Robert,

That rain and weather gauge was brought up on topic here before (can't find the thread for the life of me) and Seanie was in touch with the guy who collects the data there and as far as I know he was happy for the two sites to share data.

Your idea is a good one, as far as I know Seanie is up to his eyes with work at the moment so I'm sure he has some cool way of intergrating the data to make the river gauge more accurate. I'm sure he is a loads of things to do not to mention having a work, having a life and getting out to kayak on ocassion.

I would love to help out but my tech skills don't extend that far. :?

muirs
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by muirs » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:32 pm

Sounds like a final year project for some student to me! :)

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Conrad
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Conrad » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:32 pm

I wonder who that would be.
That whole concept had crossed my mind too. It would take a good bit of work to find a specific model that works and at least a couple of years of detailed rain gauge and flow data to calibrate with. I'm not familiar with the river but if all you have is water level data, in order to convert to units of flow you need to be taking onsite measurements at different water levels using current-measuring equipment.
Not sure what extra weather data would be needed to fulfill the forecasting element of it and whether another model altogether would be needed to translate that into a suitable format for input into the first model. And then there's the IT skills needed to automate the whole system...
No small task i reckon.

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Seanie
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Seanie » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:22 am

So can we draw this to a conclusion in the short term.

What should level I move the red line to?
And what level should I move the green line to?

Adrians
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Adrians » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:29 am

After talking with a good few heads about this, the most common view was that.

Leave the green line where it is, reason being no matter how low some people may think it the river may be it is still "low but runnable"

As for the red line, loads and loads of mixed views on this one but the middle ground was perhaps move theline to the 120 mark. that was it still shows the river as high before it become "too" grabby. This would probaly work for most for the people who use the gauge ( collage and normal clubs)

So in short, Green Line stays put, Red line moves up slightly.

tiernan
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by tiernan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:36 pm

nothing has to change coz "high" is in the eye of the beholder, those that paddle the annamoe regularly will know what they think is high and whats not, on the other hand having "high" at a lower mark will mean that people that arent regulars on the annamoe (or any gauged river) wont get cought out as easy, if they happen to be coming from the other side of the country, etc.

100cm is actually pretty high and probably would be pushy for any mixed ability group also one of the most plesent levels to run it (IMHO; jacksons being at a lovely level to saunter over, the hole not being too murderous), when you start getting over 140 you have most things washed out and at about 180cm jacksons is a run straight over the falls (jacksons not being the tough part, the run in is swampped with loads of holes and u need to hit jacksons at speed and preferably in ur kayak), and i think the gauge starts to max out at 180, personally dont think i've seen it higher. should there be lines for these levels too??? probably not coz then we wont be able to see a graph just loads of f&*%Ig lines...

if you think that 120cm is to high to run it then dont run it at that level, if you need a line to read the graph, you could get a white board marker and trace over the graph lines already on the graph, it'll just rub right off your monitor again (i think).

now i dont know how hard (or easy) it is to change at what height the line gets drawn but does seem like an awful lot of "whats the point" when you could spend that time paddling!

t

Adrians
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Re: Avonmore River gauge (adjustment ?)

Post by Adrians » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:58 pm

Adrians wrote:
Now I know some people are thinking if you already know what the level will be like by combining what the gauge says and my own experience so why change it. My reason is that in order for the gauge to be as effictive as possible and to be a resource for kayakers all over the country who may not have any local knowlege, it is best to have the most accurate data available to them.
tiernan wrote:
100cm is actually pretty high and probably would be pushy for any mixed ability group also one of the most plesent levels to run it
t
I would be of the opnion the the gauge should reflect the river or the grade of the river to be more accurate. Not geared towards a groups ability good or bad that may use it. As in at 100cm that is not "high" for this river that is graded as a grade 4 river.

On a side note a couple of us ahad a run on the river where the gauge would have read about 220 (ish) now thats a nuts level!

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